Can you force leaning into corners whilst (front) braking?

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Re: Can you force leaning into corners whilst (front) brakin

Postby Jug_Inspector » Sep 5th, '17, 07:51

Ducaki wrote:Rich have you tryed rear trail braking?


Yup, I discovered that a few weeks back on my strom, 2up across Dartmoor. I was on the B3357 going from Two Bridges to Ashburton. There are a few downhill tight ones, almost switchbacks. I soon realised that trailing the rear into (and most of the way through) the corner had the bike turning in better and feeling more composed throughout the corners.

I need to adopt this technique on my SD but I can't adjust the brake pedal at the moment, the adjuster has seized. :(
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Re: Can you force leaning into corners whilst (front) brakin

Postby Jug_Inspector » Sep 5th, '17, 07:53

awkwardbydesign wrote:It has been said (by Kevin Schwantz?) that if you have enough grip to brake, you have enough grip to get round the bend.

lol - so what's the message here, don't brake, just lay her in? :)):
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Re: Can you force leaning into corners whilst (front) brakin

Postby Scotty » Sep 5th, '17, 08:42

Jug_Inspector wrote:I need to adopt this technique on my SD but I can't adjust the brake pedal at the moment, the adjuster has seized. :(

The standard rear brake on the 990SD is rubbish, so don't expect miracles.... I think that it's down to a mismatch between master cylinder and caliper piston sizes. There are a few old threads on superduke.net about fixes for it (involving replacing the caliper)
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Re: Can you force leaning into corners whilst (front) brakin

Postby awkwardbydesign » Sep 5th, '17, 22:37

Jug_Inspector wrote:
awkwardbydesign wrote:It has been said (by Kevin Schwantz?) that if you have enough grip to brake, you have enough grip to get round the bend.

lol - so what's the message here, don't brake, just lay her in? :)):

Yes. As I discovered at Donington. First time, I braked and went into the gravel. Second time I kept my nerve, leant it more, and got round.
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Re: Can you force leaning into corners whilst (front) brakin

Postby Millsyboy » Sep 6th, '17, 05:51

I would only apply front brake before hitting the corner, never whilst during. This is just to scrub off some speed.
So to apply the rear, I guess this is done whilst leaned over in the corner? Does the rear tyre keep in line with bike when doing so?
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Re: Can you force leaning into corners whilst (front) brakin

Postby Jug_Inspector » Sep 6th, '17, 07:25

Millsyboy wrote:I would only apply front brake before hitting the corner, never whilst during. This is just to scrub off some speed.


This is textbook but is more suited for the track where you have learnt the corners and can see if they are clear. Out on the street there can be many reasons why your chosen corner entry speed may be too fast for the given situation.
So you have 2 choices as far as I can see. Learn what to do in those situations or always ride into corners more cautiously/slowly.

Millsyboy wrote:
So to apply the rear, I guess this is done whilst leaned over in the corner? Does the rear tyre keep in line with bike when doing so?

Some advocate dragging the rear brake as you lean in, or before. The idea being that you don't suddenly upset the suspension mid corner when applying the brake.
Also by braking with just the rear you don't deform the front tyre, which is what creates the standing up response from the bike when using the front brake.
That's my understanding of rear braking so far..
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Re: Can you force leaning into corners whilst (front) brakin

Postby billinom8s » Sep 6th, '17, 09:43

If you dab the rear brake when exiting a corner at the point of opening the throttle the rear of the bike hunkers down giving you more traction as the rear tyre is being forced into the road surface.
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Re: Can you force leaning into corners whilst (front) brakin

Postby Scotty » Sep 6th, '17, 12:02

Is Jug Inspector thinking of doing this on the road or on track?
If you want to learn about it, do a load of trackdays and practise it, and read/watch Twist of the Wrist and Motovudu amongst others. If you're thinking of doing it on the road, it'll end in tears. Needing to brake into corners on the road indicates a case of TFF (figure the acronym out, it isn't difficult, the last word is Fast) - turning into corners and needing to brake will have you concentrating far too much to be able to mitigate things like tightening radius, bumps, holes, gravel, manhole covers, other traffic and so on. If you aren't travelling quickly enough to need the front brake, then why bother? With brakes as powerful as those on the SD, you'll just stop, and if you're riding with other people you just become a slow-moving obstacle in the middle of the corner and they won't thank you for it.
Braking into corners is fine on track, where the margins for error are much finer and you're travelling much more quickly, but it's the sort of thing you need to build up to it gently, bearing in mind the reduced coefficient of friction from your front tyre as you lean over and the force through it becomes a function of the lean angle (I can't be bothered to look up the physics of it right now). Plenty of top level racers end up in the kitty litter as a result of needing too much brake into a corner, and they have way more talent and better equipment for the job than any of us.
Best bear in mind the words of Dirty Harry: "A man's got to know his limitations"
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Re: Can you force leaning into corners whilst (front) brakin

Postby billinom8s » Sep 6th, '17, 16:45

Still trying to convince him to lose the cherry and come and have a bimble at Llandow Scotty.

A nice, safe toe dip into circuit pleasure.
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Re: Can you force leaning into corners whilst (front) brakin

Postby Jug_Inspector » Sep 6th, '17, 17:23

I do hope to join you on the 2018 track day.
I have leathers now too, I'm just a little scared TBH...







... of getting the bug and having to buy a track day bike and then having to attend all these different tracks here and abroad.... :mrgreen:
I'm not sure my bank balance, or garage for that matter, can cope with it all. :)):
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