South West Bikers | Motorcycle Forum

menzies3032 wrote:Just to answer the torque rench question due to the complexity of macanical torque trenches and the need for regular calibration plus the cost I went for the other alternative

An electric version it is about £30 and it slots into the socket of the socket set and then the other side you attach the normal socket. Set it to the correct setting ( digital display) start turning and it verbs quicker the closer you are to the setting until you get a constant tone your at the setting.

Job done tightened to 100 nm

I don't think Gee is talking about the measurement of recorded torque at the socket wrench head Rob. When you put an extension bar onto the wrench head that allows you to reach further into where a nut or bolt is located that is when then figures change and the formula comes into effect. When you normally use a torque wrench it's handle to drive to socket (no long limbs to flex) when you add a reach bar this will have it's own elasticity that will absorb some of the force required to do the nut/bolt up when it 'twists'. To get the correct torque setting in the correct place you must factor in the twist and compensate for it.

GEE, THE FORMULA DIDN'T TRANSFER IN THE COPY AND PASTE.

yith a lot of socket sets you will get a small, medium and large extension bar, not for levering but for reaching. This is the thing you need to take into consideration.

Other way around, I think you'll find Si. Using an extension increases the torque applied to the bolt.
Same principle with screwdrivers - using a longer screwdriver will often undo things a shorter one can't

The page I was reading online about it then must be a wiki then.

TLS-Moose wrote: Same principle with screwdrivers - using a longer screwdriver will often undo things a shorter one can't

It may well but the same force is applied regardless of the length on the screwdriver's shaft, unless you are using it to pry something open that is.

This thread seems to be going all over the place so I thought I'd try to clarify with pictures.

Extension bars such as these do not affect the torque applied to the nut or bolt.


They offer no addition mechanical advantage (leverage) so have no effect.

The extensions that I think Gee was refering to look more like this

Aha

Thanks Mr. J. I was wondering if some peeps hadn't taken their pills recently.
Never seen, or heard of, that device. Explains everything.

Back on Suzuki oil levels......
1: Check level with bike vertical, not on sidestand.
2: If no mate available to hold bike upright, as long as a paddock stand doesn't lift the wheel too far off the ground you'll still be ok to check the level. I do Mine on the Abba stand with both wheels same level off the level floor.
3: Better the level is on the low side than overfilled - you will bugger the motor when ridden hard with too much crankcase pressure.
4: You will be fine using semi-synth or full synth oils (with no clutch slip problems) as long as it's a bike specific oil. Nearly all the drag racing guys on Gixxer1000 and Busa engine bikes use full synth.
5: Do not overtighten the sump bolt.

Jug_Inspector wrote:

TLS-Moose wrote: Same principle with screwdrivers - using a longer screwdriver will often undo things a shorter one can't

It may well but the same force is applied regardless of the length on the screwdriver's shaft, unless you are using it to pry something open that is.

This thread seems to be going all over the place so I thought I'd try to clarify with pictures.

Extension bars such as these do not affect the torque applied to the nut or bolt.


They offer no addition mechanical advantage (leverage) so have no effect.

So the twist in the extension bar over the length means your trying to tell me will not change the torque settings???

That's like saying you could have 20foot of extension bars and it would be the same as if the socket is directly on the torque wrench?

Same theory as trying to put a impact gun through extension bars will give you the same torque as without which trust me does reduce breakaway strength drastically

Ruffian wrote: So the twist in the extension bar over the length means your trying to tell me will not change the torque settings???

That's correct.

Ruffian wrote: That's like saying you could have 20foot of extension bars and it would be the same as if the socket is directly on the torque wrench?

Also correct.

Ruffian wrote: Same theory as trying to put a impact gun through extension bars will give you the same torque as without which trust me does reduce breakaway strength drastically

No it's not the same. A manual socket wrench (or torque wrench) delivers constant force so any "flexing" of the extension bar is taken up. The flexing will show itself as a very small twist along the extension but it will still be transferring the same force.
This flexing only matters when using a pulsed wrench, or impact gun. This is because the flexing of the extension bar absorbs some of the impact shock and in doing so dampens the peak.

So tortional twist means nothing then??

In what way?
Initially the twisting will absorb energy until a balance is reached, as the wrench is released it returns this energy as it un-twists.

All the time this is happening the extension bar is exerting the same force at each end.

Just thinking about the impact driver again and there is another reason an extension bar reduces the effectiveness of the impact driver. It adds mass to the nut or bolt. Impact wrenches are rated on the energy they can depart into the target per “impact”. If you put an extension bar between the impact wrench and the nut you've increase the mass so will need more energy per strike to have the same effect.

But then again the impact gun only has to over come the torque not the weight, as you said earlier sometimes longer stuff undoes stuff shorter things will not?

So the laws of physics are non consistent?

Ruffian wrote:But then again the impact gun only has to over come the torque not the weight,

Not really, the impact gun is clouding the issue here as it doesn't work as a wrench, it's a hammer really, a rotational hammer. So if you think of a traditional hammer knocking in a nail, the bigger the nail the bigger hammer you need. Get a small nail & medium hammer it works well, put a 10 kg block of steel between the two and you have to hit it much harder to get the job done as now have to move the 10 kg block into the nail.

Ruffian wrote:as you said earlier sometimes longer stuff undoes stuff shorter things will not?

Yeh, but I think that is just because it puts you in a more comfortable position, or just keeps your hands away from the sharp things so you try a bit harder.

Ruffian wrote: So the laws of physics are non consistent?

That's whole different question but for the basic stuff like Newton's Laws of Motion, physics is consistent.

Valid, I should have stated more inertia, and kenetic energy rather than physics. But then rotational mass affects it.

Also why use a little hammer when a large Hanmer works perfect everyone?

Well this thread got you all talking

Jug_Inspector wrote:

Ruffian wrote:But then again the impact gun only has to over come the torque not the weight,

Not really, the impact gun is clouding the issue here as it doesn't work as a wrench, it's a hammer really, a rotational hammer. So if you think of a traditional hammer knocking in a nail, the bigger the nail the bigger hammer you need. Get a small nail & medium hammer it works well, put a 10 kg block of steel between the two and you have to hit it much harder to get the job done as now have to move the 10 kg block into the nail.

Ruffian wrote:as you said earlier sometimes longer stuff undoes stuff shorter things will not?

Yeh, but I think that is just because it puts you in a more comfortable position, or just keeps your hands away from the sharp things so you try a bit harder.

Ruffian wrote: So the laws of physics are non consistent?

That's whole different question but for the basic stuff like Newton's Laws of Motion, physics is consistent.

What he said