Direct Access, would you support changes?

[Jewell]

The whole CBT needs an overhaul. It is fo far from what it was originally intended to be the only way to sort it out would be to scrap the whole thing and start again with something based on the old 2 part test. I say this as one of th efirst to qualify as a CBT instructor and an instructor for the old 2 part test before that.

And we will never be treated the same way as car drivers because we are still considered an underclass.

Totally Agree, Having just finished as a M/C Instructor after 3 years of training kids etc etc. The CBT should be made at least a 2 day course. Yea, we can teach them to ride the bike (mainly under slow speed) but we cant teach them about how many ass holes are really on the road.

I used to say to students, (and this is so true, and proved by DAS),

" I can almost guerentee that in the 1st year of riding after a CBT, you will come off at least twice, maybe your own fault, may be not"

I at times had kids turn up with naked bikes, high as a kite, shorts and t/shirts, and they sat there woundering why I refused to take them - duhhh

Rant Over

quote is true for me...
roundabout...cold shite tyres...ops...
and..
diesel spill pulling upto some traffic lights on the way home from the body shop to repair my fairings from the 1st crash....

[speedy(delboy)]

North Devon District Council are, I have to say, getting thier act together, they are now running two courses, which are:

Post CBT course
Post DAS Course

These courses are aimed at teaching you to ride to survive.

WELL DONE.

You may all hate me for saying this but I am going to anyway

DAS SHOULD BE BANNED

and everyone, no matter of age, experience or what ever should be made to do the restricted test.

(Phil now goes and sits in the corner, awaiting 3rd World War to start.

[furry]

Well it's good to hear someone in the your trade actually comming out and saying that

I ride a TL1000R, and I know if I did DAS and went straight to a bike like that, I wouldn't last very long, it's only cos I've learned the hard way on my wee 125 what it's all about that i'm now able to ride a powerful bike in a safe yet enjoyable mannor

I know if you do restricted, then your at 33bhp for two yrs, but a friend of mine had an SV650 restricted to 33bhp and it still did just over 100mph, which is more than enough for a newbie (maybe too much???)

Like I said would love to see 400's make a comeback, the ammount of close encounters that I've got away with on my 400 I know I would never had made it on my 125, it outhandles a 125 in every way, yet is not stupidly fast or beyond my riding capability at the time, riding that bike has far improved my riding skills I still love riding it today even though it's 18 yrs old, round corners etc makes any bigger bike seem stupid ace machines!

Anyway Thats good news with Devon, I've worked with Devon council indirectly but on the licencing side of their operations, and they seem very keen to try new ideas to make things better for everyone living in their area, so well done to them

[furry]

Oh also a perfect example of where DAS just does not work...

I can't be assed to look for the newspaper/police actual report on this, but it goes something like this...(This was on the News on C4 this yr)


Police are keen to cut down the soaring deaths of bikers in North Wales during the summer months. It seems that many bikers who have done DAS, mainly middle aged men who haven't been biking for years, but want to get back into it, have taken the DAS route, brought a powerful machine, then headed over to North Wales as the roads here are very twisty and the scenery is beautiful. However their lack of on road riding experience has cost them their lives, with deaths per week reaching double figures in the peak of the season.

Police have tried in 2004 to enforce safe riding in North Wales, but many bikers feel they are just being pulled over for loud cans and stupid offences, rather than actually having their lives saved.

[Grumpy Git]

North Devon District Council are, I have to say, getting thier act together, they are now running two courses, which are:

Post CBT course
Post DAS Course

These courses are aimed at teaching you to ride to survive.

I was one of the assesors for the courses and I was not impressed. Too much on speed riding and not enough on machine control and the maintenance/preride checks were based on the "POWER" system which is virtually irrelivant on a bike what about stearing??? or does it not case a problem if you cant turn the bars or a cable is caught??? not impressed but at least it is something.

[clunk]

Only just got around to reading this thread......some interesting ideas put forward.

I did the old 2 part test and went from a Fizzy, to various 125s, to RD250 for a couple of months, then various 550/600 in the early eighties. Then back to 125s for commuting, then gave up for 8 years, then got the SV.
I think it was a gradual step up and had most crashes on the 125s, mainly due to drum front brakes

When I got back on the SV I almost came off instantly, the engine braking took me by surprise and I kept locking the back wheel at the first few junctions. My confidence was totally shattered, so I did a half day referesher with a training school. No further problems after that.

I think the DAS should be scrapped and a return to the old 2 part test. With a 33hp restriction for 1 year on passing both parts.
Born-agains like me should have some compulsory training for a day or half day but how this would be implemented I have no idea .

[RobG]

I agree with Clunk. I did my DAS 4 years ago and could be described as a born again middle aged biker. However, I learnt a lot from my training and found I was MORE conscious of the roads etc now than I ever was as a youngster on my FSIE or RD125. I came off just about every bike I had when I was young, had no idea at all about road safety and just rode like a twat, now I ride defensively, am more aware and thanks to my training feel Im riding safer. In the last 4 years I havnt had an off and have had 3 600's and a 1000. Oh, I still have fun though.
Not sure about all these restrictions and time factors but definately much longer periods of training teaching control and road safety, and definately not an auto pass for CBT.

[RobG]

....how many scooters do you see around with panel damage?

[furry]

Well I think Ditching DAS and Auto PASS for the CBT would be a good step in the right direction, but if that was done, then new routes of progression would have to be worked out, above was just an idea based on my experience (and I think my age helps point out the obvious problems with the current system!)

Have to say every scooter I've seen has got scuff marks up the side of it, allthough I admit when I was forced to ride one on the first day of my FULL bike licence lessons due to my bike entitlement expiring (stupid DVLA) I did bin it doing a U-Turn LOL fookin things should all be make illegal and 17 yr olds on scooters should be banned! hehe

I think one thing that can safely be said, current training route for new bikers is out of date, and is putting new bikers and other road users at risk, putting off people intrested in getting into biking, and giving the more experienced bikers a bad name, it's about time someone sorted it.

[technobear]

CBT does not prepare anyone adequately to go out biking on their own. It's better than nothing but it isn't enough.

Learner car drivers are not allowed out on their own until they pass the test. I don't see why it should be any different for bikers.

I felt and still feel that my DAS training (I had 4 days) prepared me adequately for the test and for going out on my own. In fact 3 days would have been enough - that would still have been more hours training than I had learning to drive a car.

Although all the literature seems to say that you can't fail DAS, I believe that the instructor can refuse to issue a certificate if (s)he believes you are a total muppet and will be a danger to yourself and everyone else. I think they can insist that you come back for further training. I know that my neighbour's lad was refused his certificate initially and stayed on until 8pm before the instructor was satisfied. The day I did my CBT, the instructor was close to refusing the other guy.

I think the theory test could be made tougher, not by changing the questions necessarily but by asking more of them or raising the pass mark. So many of the answers are obvious that you could go in cold and still have a good chance of passing (as I believe some on this forum have done).

[furry]

Although all the literature seems to say that you can't fail DAS, I believe that the instructor can refuse to issue a certificate if (s)he believes you are a total muppet and will be a danger to yourself and everyone else.

I'm confused, I thought before you can get your licence you have to have a test with a DVLA tester???

Thats what I did anyway, 3 days with the riding school, then 30 mins or so with the DVLA bloke riding me round before I passed my full licence.

[speedy(delboy)]

Although all the literature seems to say that you can't fail DAS, I believe that the instructor can refuse to issue a certificate if (s)he believes you are a total muppet and will be a danger to yourself and everyone else. I think they can insist that you come back for further training. I know that my neighbour's lad was refused his certificate initially and stayed on until 8pm before the instructor was satisfied. The day I did my CBT, the instructor was close to refusing the other guy.

Tech, I think you are getting the two mixed up, Anyone, really, can fail DAS (Direct Access), riding to slow, or to fast etc etc, but they say in both word of mouth and litriture that you can not fail the CBT (Compulsary Basic Training).

DAS is with a quilified Examiner and CBT with a Motorcycle Instructor or Down Trained Instructor.

I also think the Theary test should be taken before a CBT like it is on DAS, as kids of today all think they know the highway code and infact know non of it, and i know that for a fact exspecially after 3 years of hearing some pretty god damm awful answers to highway code questions.

I mean, here is a classic

Q "What is the purpose or use of a flashing headlight"

A "To let me mates out"
A "Coppers about"
A "Because my horn does not work"
A "Some twat just cut me up"

I mean, come on......

Anyone (without looking it up) know the real answer

[technobear]

Although all the literature seems to say that you can't fail DAS, I believe that the instructor can refuse to issue a certificate if (s)he believes you are a total muppet and will be a danger to yourself and everyone else.

I'm confused, I thought before you can get your licence you have to have a test with a DVLA tester???

Thats what I did anyway, 3 days with the riding school, then 30 mins or so with the DVLA bloke riding me round before I passed my full licence.

Ooops, sorry, typo!

When I said: "Although all the literature seems to say that you can't fail DAS...", what I of course meant to write was 'CBT', not 'DAS'!

[speedy(delboy)]

Tech,

Watch out mate, you are starting to BLONDE moments

PS:

Forgot to say, I was the most hated instructor with my last company, as on average I would not sign the certificateS, for 3 out of every 6 or 7 students.

I felt, I just could not. They lacked the skill and attitude to STAY ALIVE

[technobear]

I was born blonde and have always had very fair hair ;)