***DUCATI QUIT BSB DONNINGTON***

[mattr6]

But is the Ducati fair?

Ducati have their race bike based on the 1098R- a £25k limited run roadbike which, apparantly Ducati have had to pre register to meet homologation rules. The others are based on £9k roadbikes. (I'm sure Deej will come back on this!)

What stops yamaha or anyone else doing the same thing?

Nothing at all ( I think they have before with the R7).

But the idea of bringing in Superstock engine regs this year was to reduce costs and make it a more level playing field (along with control tyres). Kind of goes against this notion basing your bike on a limited production, £25k bike.

[deej]

but has it reduced costs matt ??

speaking to bucky last year they thought it would cost more as would the pirelli tyres

alongside the yamaha r7 kawazaki built the zx7rr for wsbk,was the nc30/35 not built originally for racing use and didnt yamaha also do a yzf750sp version,they've all done it in the past but nowadays the japs are more interested in bike sales than racing specials unlike the italians that like their bit extra

[Mike Daytona600]

It seems to me that Ducati said to themselves 'Let's not build a bike within the 1000cc limit and then they'll have to change the rules, afterall we're Ducati'. The rules should have been left at 1000cc with all the manufactures only being alowwed to make the same mods, no matter the configeration. That way if you use a twin, tough. They changed to rules to allow il4 to have 1000cc cos the twins had such an advantage, what was the point? Not taking anything away from Shakey put for him to pull back the places he does there has to be more to it then him. And if he is so good why wasn't he doing so well for Suzuki?

I think stop making it complicated, same rules for all, simple. And if Ducati can't build an il4 then their engineers aren't so good are they

[tomr6]

There should be 1 engine size limit and 1 weight limit. If you dont like the rules then dont participate.

I dont like the cheating that Ducati is getting away with so I wont be watching BSB for a while.

At the end of the day, Shane Byrne does not become a much better rider overnight and he is now leading the series by 68 points! He never managed that on an inline 4 did he?

[FESTER]

Looks like we stirred up a bit of a hornets nest here

[deej]

some people ride a twin better than a il4,theres quite a difference between the two

are we going to ban triumph from supersports too,they couldnt build a competitive 600 il4 so built a 675 triple,is this fair now its winning races ???

regarding shakey,the rizla team cant produce a bike thats competitive enough since denning left to go motogp,neither shakey or walker could do anything with it and sykes is struggling to keep with the 08 pace. the stobart bikes were good but not quite good enough even though he won a race(correct or no ??) on them in a tougher field last year,the field isnt as strong in 08 as it was in 07 in my eyes

[Mike Daytona600]

are we going to ban triumph from supersports too,they couldnt build a competitive 600 il4 so built a 675 triple,is this fair now its winning races ???

No it's not fair in the same way.

The twins and 4s are different and no matter how many different rules they make you won't get them to be the same so it should be the same rules for all and if ducati want to salk over it, well [censored] 'um.

[mattr6]

I'll add a bit more then!!

Not sure I agree with what some of you say about having the same capacity limits. A 1000cc twin will always produce less power than a Il4. If you bring in a cc limit everyone will run the same configuration and it will be a very boring championship!

As for control tyres, not got a problem with them in production based championships but I wouldn't want them in prototype MotoGP. As has been said, lap times are irrelevant, they were brought in to level the playing field (whether they have or not I don't know).

I think we're under estimating Shayne Byrne. He's got a lot of experience and this year he seems to have clicked with the bike. There are alot of reasons he's so far ahead- Crutchlow inconsistent/ injuring himself, Haslam losing it all to often, Karl Harris having the worst luck.

I do still say the Ducati has an advantage and something needs to be done to handicap it. In my opinion, Ducati should have based the race bike on the standard road bike (£15k model). Apparantly the conrods/ pistons wouldn't take the strain- well back the revs off. Its what the Il4's are having to do.

[Blimey]

You will always find a rider who clicks with his bike. Shakey ok has and is doing too great a job this year. Second race today, do you think he was struggling or waiting or trying his best not to make it look like a push over ??

There is always going to be a dominent number 1. We always hear how its not the bike or car because look at number 2.

Schumacher was a class act in F1 and was told its the car ok then why is all his team mates so off the pace. The same with Rossi.


Airwaves Ducati got loads and loads of money and with thier twins which seem a bit to user friendly they will shine for a while longer.

Shane Byrne is doing a grand job but i am afraid pollotics as always is going to take it away from him. Stick the extra weight on and more and prove how great you truly are SHAKEY

[Mike Rowley]

You can make a case for special conditions to suit your bike/engine configuration using a variety of well chosen stats. Disraeli said "there are lies, damned lies and statistics". All teams/manufacturers will try to influence the rules to their advantage if they can, it is only human nature and big money is at stake here.

Ducati rely more heavily than most on race heritage for sales but to an extent they all do. It is clear that the Japanese have placed their major effort towards MotoGP. That was to be expected since they have a level playing field there. WSB and BSB end up with factory supported privateers because the manufacturers are less interested in fielding a full works team in a series that has unfavourable rules for them but they still need to be seen on the track. Having said all of that, a major rule change mid-season and without reasonable notice is neither fair or sensible.

There are arguments to be had about V twins having an advantage in terms of traction whereas PL4s have an advantage of peak power. It can be said that too much peak power is an embarrasment exiting a bend and the V twin lays down the power in a more useable manner. V4s seem to resolve both problems to an extent but are expensive and complex to make. As in other motor sports electronics can solve the problem with traction control but this negates the rider's skill as in F1.

In terms of bike development, surely it is better for a maximum engine capacity to be set and manufacturers be allowed to develop their own configuration as they see fit within that criteria. That way the resultant development will ensure that we punters end up with the optimum engine configuration on our road bikes eventualy. As to whether traction control should be allowed, that is another debate altogether. My view would be that it takes too much away from the rider's skill but I can see the alternative view that it will lead to road bikes with traction control.

Too many rules encourage politics and gamesmanship. I would keep it as simple as possible, have a maximum engine capacity for all regardless of configuration.

[deej]

I'll add a bit more then!!

Not sure I agree with what some of you say about having the same capacity limits. A 1000cc twin will always produce less power than a Il4. If you bring in a cc limit everyone will run the same configuration and it will be a very boring championship!

As for control tyres, not got a problem with them in production based championships but I wouldn't want them in prototype MotoGP. As has been said, lap times are irrelevant, they were brought in to level the playing field (whether they have or not I don't know).

I think we're under estimating Shayne Byrne. He's got a lot of experience and this year he seems to have clicked with the bike. There are alot of reasons he's so far ahead- Crutchlow inconsistent/ injuring himself, Haslam losing it all to often, Karl Harris having the worst luck.

I do still say the Ducati has an advantage and something needs to be done to handicap it. In my opinion, Ducati should have based the race bike on the standard road bike (£15k model). Apparantly the conrods/ pistons wouldn't take the strain- well back the revs off. Its what the Il4's are having to do.

but would a stock 1098 make that much difference chassis and handling wise as all the bikes run different suspension,chassis mods,fuel tanks,exhausts,electrics etc. you cant tell me that haslams blade is even close to a road bike and nor is shakeys duke,they both look the same silhoutte as stock and thats as good as it gets. if you want good close road bikes racing then superstock is what you should be watching

[deej]

blimey,why should shakey have the weight and not camier or rutter,their results arent that impressive. if the other guys stayed on and rizla built a better bike we'd have even closer racing and none of these arguements

[Mike Daytona600]

blimey,why should shakey have the weight and not camier or rutter,their results arent that impressive. if the other guys stayed on and rizla built a better bike we'd have even closer racing and none of these arguements

You say that but Ducati couldn't build a better bike without upping the capacity. They chose the V twin configeration, if they have a problem then build a il4. Like said before it's not like the V twins don't have an advantage over the fours in certain situations (when using the same cc). When it was 1000cc Vs and 750 il4s what did Honda do, build a V twin. So why can't Ducati do the same, Vice verser.

Also Airwave chose to use Ducati, they didn't have to.

However I do think rule changes during the season without much notice is out of order.

[deej]

why dont suzuki or kawasaki build a v twn just like honda did all those years ago ??

at theend of the day its down to their heritage and interests,ducati have always built v's and the japs are big into the il4's

mid season rule change is a touch unfair when only looking at the points and not the reasons

[TLS-Moose]

I have a few suggestions ......

Formula Libre - Any Capacity, any number of cylinders, production or unique engines/cases, but higher minimum weight limit, though basically anything go's including electronic aids, but controls on fuel efficiency/usage
MotoGP - Fixed engine capacity, any no. of cylinders, Chassis CANNOT come from same supplier as engine, no minimum weight limit, as few regs as possible, but controls on fuel and tyre usage
WSBK & national SBK series - Must be production based, with set no. produced for homologation, Set capacity limit, minimum weight limits set at tested production weight less say 10%, must retain same silhouette as production bike, but ANY tuning (other than capacity increase) is allowed, HOWEVER at end of season ALL bikes must be available for sale as raced for a set price (say double cost of cheapest production version of bikes being raced) for teams with confirmed spot in following years series.
Production SBK - As leave production line, only changes allowed are removed road gear and tuned suspension.