Can anyone help me with a problem with my Triumph

[Scotty4545]

Hello new here and was advised to try this section for some help. I have, What I think is an electrical problem with my Triumph Speed Triple 06.
The problem. When I try to start the engine the starter cranks the engine over very slowly a few revolutions until I release the start button. Like as if I had a flat battery.
Now a little history on the bike regarding this problem, please bear with as this may be a little long winded
Not long after purchasing the bike I had starting problem. When trying to start the engine the starter would crank and make horrible clanking noises every so often and then start. Bike being new to me and being a little careless I continued to use the bike. Until one day trying to start the engine after a few failed starts the starter motor would just spin not engaging the engine.
After researching and finding out I had buggered the starter, idler gear and sprag clutch I sourced parts I needed from used bikes and fitted them. Fully charged battery and the bike fired up perfect. Bike was starting great for a while. Then one morning the crank speed was slow so I aborted the start as to not bugger the new starter and sprag again. I bumped started the bike rode to work in hope it was a low battery and the trip would charge it. Crank speed was slow when leaving work but had a jump pack that ran off a dewalt battery and that started the bike fine.
As this bike is my daily ride I used the jump pack when there was no hills around to bump start it until the starter solenoid would just click. So replaced that! Along with a brand new battery I also upgraded the guage of the wires for the starting system and the bike still will only crank the engine very slow. Will only crank fast enough with assistance from a jump pack.
I have cleaned battery terminals, engine ground terminal, clutch and starter button switch swapped relays around and changed fuses to no avail. Anyone have any ideas??? PLEASE

[Jug]

Ok, just some initial questions as I'm not following.

Have you tried mains charging the current new battery when not in use (each night)?
Have you tested the voltage at the battery terminal with the engine running (so have you confirmed the bike is actually charging the battery)?

[Scotty4545]

Ok, just some initial questions as I'm not following.

Have you tried mains charging the current new battery when not in use (each night)?
Have you tested the voltage at the battery terminal with the engine running (so have you confirmed the bike is actually charging the battery)?

Hi jug, sorry if a little unclear.
I have actually bought 2 new batterys now the 2nd being a more expensive better brand as advised cheaper brand batterys can be hit nor miss anyway. Yeah I have fully charged them using a bike battery charger to it will not charge anymore multiple times while this has been happening.
They hold good charge around 12.9 volts on the multi after being unused for 24hrs
The bike seems to charge the battery 14v at idle and a slight drop when revved below 4000rpm also I don't need to charge the battery when using the bike daily all other electrical parts seem to run fine lights, fuel pump, indicators, and horn never show signs of low battery

[Jug]

So I guess the only thing you haven't done is opened up the starter motor (or replaced it)?

[Scotty4545]

Starter motor is only a few months old so assumed it to be ok would not be worth pulling and stripping?

[Jug]

Ah, yes.. I missed that.

So based on what you've said nothing stands out as being the problem, but clearly something is.
Is it possible the starter gears are binding?

I'm not familiar with the engine but on my DRZ it is possible to get a washer on the wrong side of the gear and that alone can almost seize the starter gear.

[Scotty4545]

Yeah there is definitely something it's been stressing me right out. Summers here now I just want to ride it and not worry about carrying a jump pack or bump starting it.

That could be a possibility, although it did crank well after I replaced the starter and idler gears using the old battery. I think its electrical but what I have no clue atm
Thanks for your help and quick replays by the way

[Robbo87]

Scotty, just seen your tale of Triumph woes. I've no time to get detailed about things to look for right now but here's three things you need to know: 1. The big Triumph triple engines need a good battery with a high CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) output - mine is 230. 2. Make absolutely certain that your reg/rec and all it's connectors are in tip top condition - don't use a readily available and too-cheap-to-be-true one, it WILL fail! 3. Upgrade the three cables associated with your starter system to a thicker, heavy duty gauge - I note you mention doing something like this but for clarification check out either of the two excellent Triumph Sprint ST 1050 groups on Facebook, there's reams of valuable info' there that will apply to your Speed Triple too. Good luck.

[ptolemyx]

A possibility is poor earth connection. There should be virtually no resistance between battery earth terminal, frame and engine. That engine earth lead is as important as the power side connections.

[billinom8s]

Also, check your manual, see what revs the charging circuit kicks in at. My old r1 used to sit at 14.7 but only once I was at 5000.
Some of the early triumphs were known for having electrical drains via their Factory alarm systems too.
Like phil said, make sure you have a battery with the right cranking values.
Also, once gus charged, take a reading and then pull the fuses. Leave it over night and then test the voltage again, if you have a parasitic drain through an onboard component it would of dropped, Probs just enough to make cranking tricky.

[Jug]

Although it is showing like an electrical issue that might just be symptom.

Either the current battery can't crank at normal speed because there are loses in the electrical path or an issue with the new starter motor OR the engine is now requiring more power to crank it, in which case I'd look for a mechanical reason between the starter and the flywheel.

[Ruffian]

Put a jump lead from the engine block to the negative terminal.
This will give a direct earth.

Also make sure the connections on the positive are good, as have seen dodgy starter solenoid connections give issues, especially if had starting issues before.

Might even be worth putting a screwdriver/jumping the starter solenoid just to confirm not burnt out inside

[Tvrv37]

All the things suggested are possible. Eliminate earth issues as per Ruffian's post then work your way through. I would suggest a proper drop test on your battery. Most are pretty awful quality I've just gone through three battery warranty claims on a works van with supposed premium battery, all shite. Worth trying a direct earth from the starter motor to the frame as well.

[Scotty4545]

Scotty, just seen your tale of Triumph woes. I've no time to get detailed about things to look for right now but here's three things you need to know: 1. The big Triumph triple engines need a good battery with a high CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) output - mine is 230. 2. Make absolutely certain that your reg/rec and all it's connectors are in tip top condition - don't use a readily available and too-cheap-to-be-true one, it WILL fail! 3. Upgrade the three cables associated with your starter system to a thicker, heavy duty gauge - I note you mention doing something like this but for clarification check out either of the two excellent Triumph Sprint ST 1050 groups on Facebook, there's reams of valuable info' there that will apply to your Speed Triple too. Good luck.

Hi, thanks for your reply. I have come to learn how important CCA is with these 1050 engines current battery has the recommended 180 CCA it is a yuasa ytx12 brand new so in theory this should work. I did buy a battery previous to this with 200 CCA but it was a cheap brand so CCA was questionable. The original battery that came with the bike was rated 180 CCA and would crank the engine well to start with u ntill problems started.
I will indeed check reg/rec to ensure its charging the battery but th I has nothing to do with the starting system does it?
I have done the starter power wire mod using 16mm2 guage wire for battery positive to solenoid. 16mm2 wire negative battery to engine ground amd 25mm2 wire solenoid to starter.
Unfortunately I dont use Fb do they have a site? Thanks again

[Scotty4545]

A possibility is poor earth connection. There should be virtually no resistance between battery earth terminal, frame and engine. That engine earth lead is as important as the power side connections.

I had a feeling it could be this to that's why I used a thicker guage wire directly from negative battery to engine ground. I also cleaned up the old connections. Would there be other ground points I don't no off maybe?